Photography question, UPDATED with more info

"Chariotoflove" (chariotoflove)
06/20/2019 at 17:09 • Filed to: photography

this is the camera I have

My daughter is taking a photography camp next week at the zoo. The only requirement is to bring a digital camera that is not a phone.

I have !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! (pic above) that still works fine. It has different scene modes for portrait, closeup, etc. It does not have manual exposure control, nor does it have a viewfinder (screen only) . I was figuring it will do great for a beginner class like this. I am emailing the camp to see if they have more specific recommendations. Most of you are recommending manual control of shutter speed and aperture, which this doesn’t have, just ISO settings. I will have to decide whether to stand pat or get something better.

Thanks everyone for your informative replies!

DISCUSSION (61)

HammerheadFistpunch > Chariotoflove
06/20/2019 at 14:23

have her look for something with manual controls. the cheaper the better. doesn’t need to have interchangeable lenses. she’ll be happier learning to max out the p erformance of a cheaper camera then move up to a nicer one if she’s so inclined. going straight to DSLR allows you to cover up basic learning with depth of field control.

vicali > Chariotoflove
06/20/2019 at 14:25

I would suggest using something that has a manual mode with aperture and speed settings.. Half the fun of learning is over/under exposing and figuring out why.

Tell her to have fun and take lots of pictures.

Dakotahound > Chariotoflove
06/20/2019 at 14:34

It is likely that, as part of the course , they will be learning how to use the aperture and shudder speed. I t is important that the camer a is capable of manually and independently selecting both the aperture and shudder speed.

Many point-and-shoot cameras do not have these options , but your Fujifilm X-T20 appears to have a fully manual mode. It should work for the photography camp.

Chariotoflove > Dakotahound
06/20/2019 at 14:34

Oh sorry, that was just a pic I pulled of f the web. That’s not what I have.

Point taken though.

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > Chariotoflove
06/20/2019 at 14:41

I have a cannon G3 in a box somewhere that would be perfect for that. It’s 4 mega pixel but takes fantastic photos and has a bunch of manual controls. They called it a “pro-sumer” camera.

https://www.dpreview.com/articles/1487361105/throwback-thursday-the-canon-powershot-g3

BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind > Chariotoflove
06/20/2019 at 14:42

Do you happen to have any Canon or Nikon lenses already at home? Older bodies (that are still very functional), like a D100/d2000 or T1i are very cheap ($100 or below used) and are just as useable and anything made today.

But yeah, she’ll prob need a DSLR or at least a mirrorless digital for the class.

Just Jeepin' > Chariotoflove
06/20/2019 at 14:45

The good news is that any used Nikon or Canon digital from 10-15 years ago would be fine and very cheap. A nifty 50 prime lens and go make pics.

If you have a local camera shop they can hook you up.

Censored > Chariotoflove
06/20/2019 at 14:57

To learn photography, you must have a camera with manual controls. Also the small sensor size on most point and shoots drastically widens the depth of field, which is going to be a hindrance. Get on craigslist and find a cheep ($ 150-200) DSLR kit camera (18-55 lens) and let her have fun. Photography is 99% composition, but it requires the appropriate tools to achieve good composition, you just don’t need the latest and greatest. A ny N ikon D3_00 or D5_00 series cameras would be great for her. I’m a Nikon guy, so that’s my suggestion, but the Cannon equivalent would be just as great I just don’t know their models.

gettingoldercarguy > Chariotoflove
06/20/2019 at 14:59

https://asia.olympus-imaging.com/product/compact/tg5/index.html

Dakotahound > Chariotoflove
06/20/2019 at 15:00

I was wondering - that is a pretty capable camera. As I mentioned, the camera should have a manual mode ( possibly aperture priority or shudder priority). Those are topics that they will likely learn in class.

Of course, you should probably check to see about the camera requirements for this class. Maybe they will only learn composition.

facw > Chariotoflove
06/20/2019 at 15:03

She doesn’t need a DSLR, but I’d definitely make sure it’s something that lets you adjust aperture and shutter speed (and without making you spend a bunch of time digging into menus).

benjrblant > Chariotoflove
06/20/2019 at 15:08

On the plus side, DSLR’s have been around long enough that you can find a decent one with said necessary features for dirt cheap. Nikon d40's sell for $50-100 and a basic 50mm f/1.8 or 18-55mm kit lens is comparable.

MarquetteLa > Chariotoflove
06/20/2019 at 15:21

You ought to be able to find an old Nikon D3100 or D 3200 for stupid cheap on craigslist these days. Very capable camera.

Jonathan Harper > Chariotoflove
06/20/2019 at 15:21

Just get her a used basic DSLR off CL. As others have mentioned, she will need the ability to manually control the shutter and aperture to actually learn anything.

CB > Chariotoflove
06/20/2019 at 15:23

You should be able to swing by a local photography shop and find a used DSLR for cheap. A D70 at my local shop was $70 for the body, and a used kit lens should be equally cheap. Is it old? Yes. Does it get the point across? Absolutely.

Textured Soy Protein > Chariotoflove
06/20/2019 at 15:24

There are various categories to consider.

An SLR (Single Lens Reflex) gets its name from the mirror it has between the lens and sensor that reflects light coming up through the lens into the viewfinder. When you take a picture and the mirror flips up out of the way. These have large image sensors (in a few different sizes) and you can change the lenses .

Mirrorless cameras are the same general idea as SLRs but do away with the mirror and optical viewfinder. If they have viewfinders, they’r electronic, like a camcorder. This makes the camera and lenses more compact for a given sensor size vs. an SLR with the same sensor size. It also gives more flexibility for adapting old manual focus lenses. The Fuji you posted is shaped like an SLR but it’s actually mirrorless, for example.

Point & shoot - compact camera with built-in lens, with or without manual controls. Usually these have smaller sensors to help keep the size down, but s ome of the newer fancier ones have sensors that are the same size as the smallest mirrorless cameras.

If your old P&S has manual controls then it could be a decent starting point. If not, it might not be enough for the class. It might not even have better picture quality than a typical phone now.

Otherwise I’d maaaaybe look into getting a cheaper older used mirrorless camera that has easy to figure out manual controls.

Chariotoflove > Dakotahound
06/20/2019 at 15:56

All they say is bring your own digital camera and usb cable. It’s monday through thursday with an overnight thursday night. So, it’s basically one of their fun summer activity camps.

Captain of the Enterprise > Chariotoflove
06/20/2019 at 16:50

I got my my Canon T5 a few years ago with a refurb sale like this one. It’s a T6 for $320 refurbished by canon and on sale. It would be an excellent starter DSLR, it doesn’t do video though.

https://shop.usa.canon.com/shop/en/catalog/eos-rebel-t6-ef-s-18-55mm-f-35-56-is-ii-kit-refurbished

Chariotoflove > Captain of the Enterprise
06/20/2019 at 17:11

That’s a good one, and I am a Canon fan. My girl will have to take up long term interest in the hobby before I can justify that kind of coin though.

Chariotoflove > Textured Soy Protein
06/20/2019 at 17:12

This is a good thorough answer, thanks! I updated the main post. Basically, this P&S has very little in actual manual control, but is a good tourist camera.

Chariotoflove > Dakotahound
06/20/2019 at 17:13

I updated the post to show the Canon Powershot I have. I also emailed the camp to see if they have further recommendation.

Chariotoflove > HammerheadFistpunch
06/20/2019 at 17:15

That seems to be the consensus. I have a very good Canon Powershot , but very little manual control beyond a few settings like closeup mode. Basically a tourist camera, but a very good one.

Chariotoflove > Censored
06/20/2019 at 17:16

You’re right, of course. I’m looking to see what I can find in reasonable price ranges for a 13 year old . I figure if she has to go with my Canon Powershot (pictured above), she can still learn how to take a good shot for starters.

Chariotoflove > BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind
06/20/2019 at 17:18

I’ve got nothing beyond what I pictured above. I’d have to buy a kit or stand pat for now.

Chariotoflove > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever
06/20/2019 at 17:19

That would probably be a great choice, even though it’s down on megapixels vs. newer models. I’ve never been a megapixel focused person though.

Chariotoflove > CB
06/20/2019 at 17:20

Good point. I am a believer in old camera. As long as the lens is good, any decent body works. At least that used to be true in the days of film.

Chariotoflove > benjrblant
06/20/2019 at 17:21

That’s an acceptable range if I can find one.

Chariotoflove > vicali
06/20/2019 at 17:21

Good advice. And I will.

Chariotoflove > Just Jeepin'
06/20/2019 at 17:21

I may do that.

Chariotoflove > facw
06/20/2019 at 17:22

Mine (pictured above) has very little manual about it, unfortunately. I may have to consider something else

Chariotoflove > Jonathan Harper
06/20/2019 at 17:22

Good advice. That’s what I’m reading.

Chariotoflove > MarquetteLa
06/20/2019 at 17:22

I’ll check. Thanks!

Chariotoflove > gettingoldercarguy
06/20/2019 at 17:24

Good one. I think the one I have may be close to that.

gettingoldercarguy > Chariotoflove
06/20/2019 at 17:26

I had an underwater picture of my little one up for a few minutes, just didn't want to leave it up.

CB > Chariotoflove
06/20/2019 at 17:26

I used a ten year old camera until it became a fourteen year old camera. Was it a little behind on features? Absolutely. Did it teach me the basics? It sure did.

facw > Chariotoflove
06/20/2019 at 17:28

Yeah, I have one like that as well (an SD780, which I bought specifically because it was the newest ELPH available with a viewfinder), and it would probably not be the best choice (you could compose, but you’d be limited otherwise). I also have (and probably should sell) a Cybershot RX100 which would probably be fine, though the controls are bit less convenient than my DSLR:

Kinja'd!!!

https://www.amazon.com/Sony-Premium-Compact-Digital-28-100mm/dp/B00889ST2G

I’m sure there are other comparable (and probably cheaper) point and shoots out there that also have manual shooting controls available .

Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing. > Chariotoflove
06/20/2019 at 17:28

Since it doesn’t need to be anything fancy you can get an ancient DSLR for next to nothing. A couple of years ago I bought an Olympus E-1 for $45 and spent about $25 on a lens. It was a professional camera back in the day, but it still shoots just fine as long as you don't need anything with a zillion megapixels. For my simple requirements it does just fine.

Chariotoflove > gettingoldercarguy
06/20/2019 at 17:31

Ah, okay.

Chariotoflove > facw
06/20/2019 at 17:32

Whoa, that’s a pricey little bugger.

Chariotoflove > Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing.
06/20/2019 at 17:33

Sounds good.

facw > Chariotoflove
06/20/2019 at 17:37

Yep. Unfortunately, used prices are in an annoying range where I can’t decide if it’s cheap enough that I should just keep it. If it were worth $50, it wouldn’t be worth the bother, and if it were $200 I’d probably just say between my other point and shoot, my phone, and the DSLR, I don’t need this and sell it, but used prices looked pretty in between last I saw, so instead it sits in my closet, depreciating...

vicali > Chariotoflove
06/20/2019 at 17:59

Updated!

Wait to hear what the course is like, if it’s focused (uh-huh) on composition and lighting then your all set. If the first exercise is to shoot at f/ 22 you’re going to need something else.

someoneatacura > Chariotoflove
06/20/2019 at 18:15

As someone that has taken a beginners photo class is the past, they might want/prefer a DSLR, or something with the ability to control a lot of the settings. Can you link the class?

Althought I personally feel that Composition is far more important than the settings used when it comes to taking a good photo (cameras have auto mode for a reason), learning both skills hand in hand is usually what they teach, as they both play important roles.

EDIT: While you can find very old DSLRs for next to nothing, its best to get the newest one you can afford. I started with a D5000 and it was a good camera for it’s time, and I personally wouldn’t go older than a D3100/3200 for a beginner nowadays, as they sensors used at that point are leaps and bounds better than what you’d find in say a D40 or D70.

Chariotoflove > facw
06/20/2019 at 18:26

That’s the thing. Digital cameras depreciate over time as tech improves. Film cameras are good forever.

That’s progress for you.

Chariotoflove > vicali
06/20/2019 at 18:28

Just got a reply email. The instructor says a pocket cam will do fine. They are just going to focus on basic composition and lighting and take lots of pics of animals.

BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind > Chariotoflove
06/20/2019 at 18:28

Here’s an example:

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F192954355029

Likewise, ask around to friends and relatives. Heck, if you wanna pay shipping, I have a T1i and a lense I’d lend you.

vicali > Chariotoflove
06/20/2019 at 18:37

Bingo, tell her to have fun!

Chariotoflove > someoneatacura
06/20/2019 at 18:50

Thanks. I can link the class, but there isn’t much info there. The instructor just emailed me to say it’s mostly beginner composition and lighting . They’re just going to take lots of pics of animals. A pocket camera will be fine, she said. If I had something with good manual controls, I’d let her use it, but I think even a used DSLR might be premature. I’m now thinking having adjustability might even slow her down.

Chariotoflove > BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind
06/20/2019 at 18:52

Cool. I think I’ll keep that in mind.

Don’t worry, if I were going to borrow, my sister has a nice one. But thanks for the offer.

facw > Chariotoflove
06/20/2019 at 20:23

They are also bad forever, in the sense that they require consumable film, and a cumbersome developing process. And meanwhile a 10-15 year old digital camera is cheap and just as good as it was when new (baring dust intrusion and wear and tear, which are concerns for film cameras as well), it’s just that there are newer fancies things to catch people’s eyes.

Chariotoflove > facw
06/20/2019 at 20:56

I’m still a romantic about film though.

facw > Chariotoflove
06/20/2019 at 21:09

I was never involved in any remotely serious photography in the film age, so my feeling comes for a very ca su al point of view that associates it with being expensive and ending up stuck with crappy pictures, not any nostalgia for the warmth of analog or any such thing.

Agrajag > Chariotoflove
06/20/2019 at 21:55

Late to the party, but if she ends up enjoying it and you want to upgrade to a dslr, KEH.com is a really good place for used equipment.

I have this camera and this is a good starting lens .

The Snowman > Chariotoflove
06/20/2019 at 22:52

I remember back when that camera was new you could get aftermarket firmware that gave you full manual control. Worth looking at now that the depreciation has kicked in...

Chariotoflove > facw
06/20/2019 at 23:55

There is no doubt that digital is easier and more flexible as well as overall cheaper in the long run. However, for a long time, digital couldn’t match the resolution and depth of color you could get with film. Also, there was an art and finesse to the chemistry of finessing those silver grains in developing and retouching.

Of course, all professional photographers are digital now, which tells you all you need to know.

Chariotoflove > Agrajag
06/20/2019 at 23:56

Thanks! I will definitely keep that in mind.

Chariotoflove > The Snowman
06/20/2019 at 23:56

That’s a thing? I had no idea that was a thing.

Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing. > Chariotoflove
06/21/2019 at 04:50

I just poked around at KEH.com (I’ve been buying from them for over 30 years now and they've treated me very well) and saw that they had an Olympus DSLR body for $35 and a zoom lens for $19. I’m not sure what accessories are included, like a battery or charger, but for considerably less than $100 you’re d definitely in the ‘why not?’ price range for something that should last her for years in any photo class.

Chariotoflove > Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing.
06/21/2019 at 11:52

That’s awesome!

The Snowman > Chariotoflove
06/21/2019 at 12:49

https://chdk.fandom.com/wiki/CHDK

Chariotoflove > The Snowman
06/21/2019 at 12:59

Thanks. I Googled it after you mentioned it. That’s really cool. I might try it.